15445 Views 7 Replies Latest reply: Sep 25, 2010 4:07 PM by Stephen Glover RSS
6 posts since
Jul 15, 2009
Currently Being Moderated

Aug 11, 2009 6:56 PM

Tuesday Night Policy Discussion

Based on your readings, research, and experiences, please provide brief answers to any and/or all of the following questions. Feel free to be frank. In the next 20 minutes I will be posting my own thoughts on these questions and reviewing what you have posted.

 

1. Are districts playing appropriate role in terms of policy? Why or why not?
2. Are states playing appropriate role in terms of policy? What are the goals of teacher evaluation systems at the state level?
3. Is the Federal Government playing the appropriate role in terms of policy? What goals and levers exist at the Federal level?
4. Are unions appropriately involved? Why or why not?
5. Are non-union teachers and administrators playing the appropriate role in terms of policy? Why or why not?
6. Are funding levels sufficient for implementation? Do they reflect the value of teacher evaluation systems? Why or why not?
7. Are teacher evaluation systems institutionalized? Why or why not?
8. Are there any innovative practices in this area?

  • 26 posts since
    Jun 4, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 11, 2009 8:11 PM (in response to Eric Nunnally)
    Re: Tuesday Night Policy Discussion

    Eric, great idea to hold "live" discussions. I am particularly interested in the Federal role. I think we are at a cross roads in terms of the government putting its money where it mouth is with education funding and ARRA/Race to the Top Funds. Requiring that states to take stock of their teaching workforce assigns accountability and responsibility. Tying that assessment to funding could be a good thing for clearing the system of inadequate teachers or it could leave districts without a workforce if follow-up is not planned. Just my two cents. Remember team, we only have four weeks left so we need every one of your voices present in our discussions - you are the brains behind this effort and we cannot do it without you!

    • 26 posts since
      Jun 4, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      Aug 11, 2009 8:29 PM (in response to Eric Nunnally)
      Re: Tuesday Night Policy Discussion
      You're right Eric - good stuff!  So maybe in terms of keeping the focus of the discussion on policy, think of the question as being "assuming we have the right options for evaluation systems", what role should the various policy levels play in facilitating the use of proper evaluation methods - not necessarily deciding which approach is right. Food for thought...
  • Catherine Cullen 140 posts since
    May 29, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 11, 2009 10:07 PM (in response to Eric Nunnally)
    Re: Tuesday Night Policy Discussion

    I think it's worth noting that the Federal role in providing accountability isn't always about individuals. The smallest unit NCLB related standards and testing requirements relate to is a school. But group accountability is hard, and some of the high standards for states and districts were pushed down onto individual teachers. I know I felt that way when I was teaching.

     

    The guidance for the Race to the Top Fund moves well beyond the accountability structure of NCLB and its focus on accountability to proficiency cut scores to a growth-focused standard for teaching.

     

    I'm especially interested in whether or not Congress will continue that trend and shift focus away from the distribution of  "highly qualified" teachers to that of "highly effective" teachers. They definitely can't do it without good evaluation systems.

     

    I think Tuesday night Policy Discussions are a great idea!

  • 1 posts since
    Aug 7, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 11, 2009 10:25 PM (in response to Eric Nunnally)
    Re: Tuesday Night Policy Discussion

    Eric

     

    Here goes one persons views from 6 years as a parent leader


    1. Are districts playing appropriate role in terms of policy? Why or why not?

     

    I think the answers vary tremendously from location to location.  In my experience States set what are n effect minimum proficiency levels that, in practice, are easily surpassed by some districts (think Silverlake in LA) and are near impossible to achieve in others (say Long Beach).  This leaves the Silverlakes of the world free to innovate and experiment - the kids are all proficient and so no teacher is going to get a bad eval based on the kids test scores, while the Long Beaches struggle.

     

    In an ideal world districts would define policies specific to the needs of their kids, while keeping in mind the need to move all children towards some meaningful higher education.  Kind of like what NCLB was supposed to be.


    2. Are states playing appropriate role in terms of policy? What are the goals of teacher evaluation systems at the state level?

     

    I come at this with a definite axe to grind but so long as we're in a democracy and interest groups are going to contributed money to elections we have to address the role that teachers unions have played traditionally, and could play in the future.  As noted above, I believe the current role that states play is defining minimum standards of student achievement, and  (at least in the case of my home state, New York, mandating only the most vague systems of teacher evaluation.  And, certainly ones that do not use any data to perform this evaluation.  Not parent input, not peer review, and certainly not test scores.

     

    To my mind the goal of the system is to ensure a politically acceptable level of proficiency (about 75% of kids at or above the cut off, regardless of what this really means about readiness for college or work) and ensure a decent standard of living and heathcare for retirees.  Nothing wrong with that per se (I think all American workers should be able to aspire to this).  But it's not a evaluation system.


    3. Is the Federal Government playing the appropriate role in terms of policy? What goals and levers exist at the Federal level?

     

    As you know well the  Federal gov't plays a relatively tiny role in education compared to other countries.  Whether this is good or not, I'd suggest it's tilting at windmills for this group to try and change that at this time.  Arne can do what he wants (exhort and badger) but the way we roll is local property taxes, supplemented by state-level redistributions.  And policy will be determined by those who pay for it. Title One is an obvious lever, as are these Race to the Top funds.  but they're really a drop in the bucket.


    4. Are unions appropriately involved? Why or why not?

     

    Historically they are not.  They've appeared to serve their member well by ensuring there is no evaluation system and insisting that one cannot be created.  But over time this has come to undermine the success of the very students each teacher claims to be nearest and dearest to their hearts.  While I have no hard data, experience suggests that for the most qualified teachers, the union provides little benefit - they're effective, well-respected, capable of managing upward and engaging effectively with their peers and parents.  So the union has to serve the weakest, the ones for whom every shortcoming or challenge is someone else's fault.   As a union leader, to succeed, you end up having to play to the lowest common denominator.  Upon hearing that a local union was seeking to organize her (exempt) position, the assistant teacher in one of my kids classes once told me "Oh, I used to have to belong them then when I taught at X school.  They did nothing for me then either"


    5. Are non-union teachers and administrators playing the appropriate role in terms of policy? Why or why not?

     

    I presume (good) principals would like fair evaluation systems that allow them to attract and retain quality teachers.  But if you have to work with the current unionized staff in the current environment it's probably hard to advocate too loudly for a change that has such a potentially profound impact on your people.  And in the most challenging of our schools, where union rules and local traditions prevent principals from paying more to attract (possibly) more motivated or qualified staff, what's the point in being able to evaluate staff more critically if you can fill those gaps with higher quality replacements.


    6. Are funding levels sufficient for implementation? Do they reflect the value of teacher evaluation systems? Why or why not?

     

    Hard to say, as we have not yet defined what we want.  The value of the current systems is generally low, no one has any expectations of then producing meaningful results, so they are probably not funded.


    7. Are teacher evaluation systems institutionalized? Why or why not?

     

    Informally yes. But if 98% of your staff are going to get tenure, and then (in effect) be guaranteed employment for life, who cares if they're evaluated consistently or not. Or whether the system is institutionalized?


    8. Are there any innovative practices in this area?

     

    I hope some of the other participants will tackle this. 

     

    regards

     

    Matthew

    • 2 posts since
      Jul 30, 2009
      Currently Being Moderated
      Aug 12, 2009 12:26 PM (in response to Matthew Levey)
      Re: Tuesday Night Policy Discussion

      Here are my thoughts on some of these questions.

       

      1. Are districts playing an appropriate role in terms of policy? Why or why not?

       

      I don't think districts are playing a sufficient role. Schools are generally left on their own to do evaluations. While the district frequently designs the process or instrument, they don't provide enough training or the structure to do it well. When I say the structure, I mean creating time in the school day and teacher leadership roles so there are people who have the time, ability, and training to conduct evaluations. Principals frequently don't have the time to do this well for all teachers and certainly don't have time to conduct multiple evaluations and provide rich feedback. Moreover, the quality of most evaluation systems is poor. I think that districts need to adopt higher quality systems, but I also think it would make more sense for the state to design, test, and validate an evaluation system. It makes more sense to develop the model at the state level, than have every district reinvent the wheel.

       

      2. Are states playing appropriate role in terms of policy? What are the goals of teacher evaluation systems at the state level?

       

      I think states need to take a more active role as well. I personally think states should design a model evaluation system that districts could then adopt and modify. They have more capacity to use the latest research, and test an instrument to be sure it's valid and reliable. At the minimum, states should have requirements for evaluation systems that will ensure they are of high quality.

       

      3. Is the Federal Government playing the appropriate role in terms of policy? What goals and levers exist at the Federal level?

       

      I think the federal government is beginning to play an appropriate role through its new reporting requirements in the State Fiscal Stabilization Fund and the Race to the Top. I would wait to see how this all plays out before making further recommendations. In the mean time I would encourage a federal investment in research and development on teacher evaluation systems.

       

      4. Are unions appropriately involved? Why or why not?

       

      I think unions are involved and have to be involved because evaluations need to be collectively bargained. What type of role they are playing probably varies greatly by district.

       

      7. Are teacher evaluation systems institutionalized? Why or why not?

       

      What do you mean by institutionalized?


      8. Are there any innovative practices in this area?


      Yes, the Teacher Advancement Program model. They modified the Danielson framework after a good deal of testing and use.
  • 20 posts since
    Sep 22, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 25, 2010 4:07 PM (in response to Eric Nunnally)
    Re: Tuesday Night Policy Discussion

    I know I am late coming to this discussion, but I wanted to put my two cents in.

     

    1.     Are districts playing appropriate role in terms of policy? Why or why not?

    I feel that most districts do the best they can with what they are given.  What troubles me is when they get into a cycle of going outside their area to hire “quality” superintendents.  I believe that my district’s cycle of calamities began when we stopped believing in the talent we have within our boundaries.  As for policy districts can play a vital role in establishing educational policy.  They have a better understanding of their socioeconomic makeup, their racial diversity, and their actual graduation “data” etc.  If they are given an opportunity to do so and if they are encouraged to do so I believe they can be highly effective in establishing policies to govern their responsibilities.

    2.     Are states playing appropriate role in terms of policy? What are the goals of teacher evaluation systems at the state level?

    I believe that states that utilize proper input from teachers and best practitioners in the field of education then they too can be effective in establishing policies.  However, far too many states rely upon speculation and little input from the people who they are attempting to establish policies for.  Too many of them have never been in a classroom except as a student and that MANY years ago.

    3.     Is the Federal Government playing the appropriate role in terms of policy? What goals and levers exist at the Federal level?

    I believe the Federal Government is doing what it needs to in order to protect the interests of the United States.  That being said, I believe that far too many politicians are getting involved who are primarily interested in protecting their turf and fattening the wallets of their sacred cows.  Again many of these individuals are attempting to make policies when they have no true experience in what are attempting to govern.  It is much like a baker attempting to design policies for a heart surgeon.

    4.     Are unions appropriately involved? Why or why not?

    Unions are involved to protect the interests of their constituents.  There are both good and bad unions just like there are good and bad teachers.  It is all about the leadership.  What is the focus of the leadership and does that leadership have the guts to listen to their people or are they interested in furthering their own political goals.

    5.     Are non-union teachers and administrators playing the appropriate role in terms of policy? Why or why not?

    If given an opportunity to do so yes, non-union teachers and administrators are taking part appropriately.  As has been stated many times effective teachers are noticed and are given an opportunity to positively influence those around them.  At least one would hope so.

    6.     Are funding levels sufficient for implementation? Do they reflect the value of teacher evaluation systems? Why or why not?

    Funding will never be sufficient.  Why?  That would be because special interests and others will always get their pay outs before it gets where it is supposed to go.

    7.     Are teacher evaluation systems institutionalized? Why or why not?

    Institutionalized?  It depends on what you mean by that?  If it is institutionalized from the stand point that evaluations, when done in a punitive manner, cause teachers excess stress in an environment where they are already over taxed yes.  If you mean entrenched?  Yes, on that point as well.

    8.     Are there any innovative practices in this area?

    I believe innovation is a good idea, but we truly need to look at the past and work for the future.  NEW is not necessarily good.  Yes, our students are distracted more than those in the past and their attention span has decreased significantly, but if teachers are allowed to teach in an environment where they are valued by more than lip-service we can progress.  If teachers are allowed to teach in an environment where they are truly treated as professionals and not subservient to whatever new procedure walks through the door then they can be successful.  If teachers are allowed to teach in an environment where they feel truly safe and do not feel threatened by the students they are teaching, the administration that is supposed to support them, and by a government that they try to uphold then they can succeed.

     

    I apoligize if I seem negative, but I have seen too much of this played out on so many different fronts.  The bottom line to consider is that if what we are doing does not help the students then what are we doing it for.  There are far too many egos that have been buffed already.

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